■An Unprecedented Revolution Led by Young Women

elabo editor

More than a month has already passed since the anti-government protests in Iran following the events of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini, who was taken into police custody for not wearing the hijab correctly and later died. The protests continue, and hundreds of people are said to have already died. In support of the young Iranian women who are leading this movement, and with the understanding that there is much for us in Japan to learn from this event, especially for Japanese women, we spoke with an Iranian woman in her 20s about the ongoing movement. For her and her family's safety, we will remain anonymous (Ms. M), but we will responsibly share what we heard from her in mid-October, edited with her.

According to the Japanese press, during the period before the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the Pahlavi monarchy had established good relations with the United States and Iranian society was Westernized. Although there is no political freedom under dictatorship, at least there was a sense of personal freedom during the Pahlavi rule. All such freedoms disappeared after the revolution of 1979, and the post-revolution generation already accounts for 70% of Iran’s population of 84 million. While there are strict Islamic precepts, young people are connected to the rest of the world via the Internet, enjoy Western TV programs and music, and make social networking a part of their lives. We can only get a basic level of information from the Japanese media, but first of all, could you explain what is happening right now from your perspective as a young person?

 
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Ms. M

The movement now goes back to 2009, the green movements. The government cheated in the election and assigned the president. They wanted a specific person to be the president. And back then, the people gathered in the streets, and the slogan was “Give back our vote.” A lot of people were arrested, and a lot of people were killed. At that time, this movement could not change the rules or the president. But it was a beginning for people to realize the current system is not working. It sparked the idea in people’s heads to start questioning the government’s legitimacy. 

And there was another movement in 2018. This time, the issue was the economy, because the price of oil increased. Everything grew more expensive, and people became poorer. So there were some protests then, but many people were killed. A lot of people were arrested, but still nothing. So the protest happened multiple times by different people for different reasons in Iran. Every time, they were oppressed by the government. But this time, the rally is continuing. It's going forward. Everyone is invested this time, and protesting people joined this movement. Although the protest against the compulsory hijab started the movement, each group who is joining the protest had its own demands. For example, ethnic minorities are protesting because of poverty and bad living conditions, workers are protesting for better working conditions, and so on. This is a significant change from the 2009 protest.

elabo editor

I see. But how did that change happen, do you think?

Ms. M

It feels like the pressure had built up and finally, there was one last push and people couldn’t take it anymore. And the person who was killed, Mahsa Amini, is not only a woman but also a Kurd. Namely, she was an ethnic minority in Iran. That's why a lot of different minority ethnicities are joining this movement. In addition, striking workers are also participating in this movement, especially in the oil industry. This is a huge thing. If this continues, we believe it could change things. Above all, young became poorer

elabo editor

Yeah. That's very impressive for us in Japan. We are amazed to hear that the average age of an arrested person is just 15 years old.

Ms. M

Yeah. 

elabo editor

I think they don't have the right to vote.

Ms. M

No, they don't. 

elabo editor

Why are they enthusiastically throwing themselves into this movement? 

Ms. M

In Islam, you need to wear a hijab from the age of nine. And in Iran, the school uniform has a hijab when you go to school, so girls have to wear hijab starting at age seven. All schools in Iran are religious, and girls and boys are all separated in the schools. So young girls in Iran are constantly under this pressure. Many teachers force you to behave a certain way. I don't have experience with the morality police, but I have many experiences in a school with teachers and staff, who told me that I should dress in a certain way and wear my hijab properly.

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My parents also grew up in this structure. Because they know about the hardship of it, they empowered their children. The younger parents are less strict. So at home, the children can think freely and for themselves. So it breaks children's lives into two different parts. You have your own life in your house, and you're free; you can do whatever you want. But if you go outside, or go to school, suddenly you are treated like a whole different person. You have to wear completely different clothes. And that's a lot of pressure.

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■Feeling like you don't belong in your own country

elabo editor

In Japan, the teachers of educational institutions are relatively liberal. Instead, girls start to be oppressed after graduation from school. In Iran, are most teachers strict and very close to religion?

Ms. M

Yes. The school staff's job is to make sure that every student is following the rules, the Islamic rules. Of course, there are many different teachers with different beliefs. There are many teachers who are fighting back these ideologies as well. But there are certain people who are assigned to schools to make sure everyone is following the rules and report those who don’t. We get a specific grade for how well-behaved we are at school. I never got the perfect score, because I never had the proper hijab. When it comes to going to university in Iran, it's ridiculous.Because usually, you need to focus on the major you want to learn. But we have to learn theology and Islam in the universities alongside our own major.

If it was free for people to choose, there would be many people who remain Muslim in Iran and would like to choose the hijab on their own. According to a survey conducted seven years ago, 70% of women did not wear the hijab properly, as the government commanded. In many cities, the number of people against the compulsory hijab rule was more than the number of pro-people. However, this does not mean they are not Muslims or are all joining the protests. Even among people who are joining in the protests, many of them believe in Islam, have their hijab, and don't want to take off their hijab. 

But the matter is the freedom of choice. Our problem is that the people with power are forcing this on us. And most women are treated as others or outsiders. We are not represented in the media or on television; we are not accepted anywhere. So the government ignores us and treats us like we don't exist. These things make people want to protest against the present rules of society in Iran.

Politicians tell us that we can leave the country if we disagree with the rules, and many people do. They're the reason that there are so many Iranians all over the world. You can't be yourself in your own country. You can't be happy in your country, and you can't plan for your future.

When I go outside on the streets, I am always nervous about what I wear, because I am always afraid I might run into the morality police. Or when I go to the university, I am always scared they might not let me in. Even if they let you go, they will remind you with their verbal violence that what you wear is not okay And it makes you feel like, “Oh! So I'm doing something wrong, and I don't belong here. People don't accept me for who I am, um, and I can't be part of this community. I can't be part of this world”. 
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That makes people who want freedom feel disconnected from their country. So one of the things the protesters say is they want to take back their homeland.

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elabo editor

That's genuinely understandable. Though there are many differences between Iran and Japan, I think so many Japanese women would sympathize with your description of the mindset of alienated women in Iran.

■ Men and women are fighting for women's rights together.

You said the word "choice." This is a critical concept to encourage the human rights movement, especially in Western countries and, recently, the feminist movement in the United States. Do young Iranian girls learn that kind of concept from the culture of the West?

Ms. M

Since the younger generation has access to social media, they are more informed about other countries' lifestyles. They yearn for such freedom, which motivates this movement. But at the same time, these ideas come from education from parents, I guess. Either way, the teenage protesters believe they can speak up against the dictatorship and gain their freedom of choice.

elabo editor

Do fathers encourage daughters, too? In East Asia, including Japan, the opinions of older men are divided pro and con concerning female empowerment.

Ms. M

I feel there are still a lot of men who don't appreciatechanging the mandatory hijab rule. But I saw a video in which one guy described the situation in Iran. 

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He was describing one of the differences between the movement in Iran and the feminism movement in Western countries, like the MeToo movement. The MeToo movement was so against males, so it was like women against men. But the movement in Iran, from the very beginning, feels like it is for both men and women. So a lot of men are going out in the streets, and men are protecting the women protesting.

elabo editor

Yeah, I saw that on the social media. That's very impressive. 

Ms. M

but it

■The way we protest is remembered and passed down from generation to generation.

elabo editor

How did the young generation in Iran learn how to fight against power or how to protest? 

Ms. M

First of all, tyranny in Iran has a very long history. It goes back to the beginning of the 19th century, when the popular and reformist chief minister was murdered at the King's command. A hundred years later, the constitutional movement wanted to establish a parliament to restrict the King's power. The Islamic revolution in 1979 was also the result of the struggle against the Pahlavi dictatorship, but it eventually turned into a religious authoritative and total regime.

In 1989, thousands of ideological prisoners were massacred. Chain murder of at least 200 authors, poets, and journalists led to university student protests. In 1999, Radical Islamic militants attacked Teheran University and killed at least seven students and arrested many. It goes on a little bit, but I'm saying that historically, we’ve had many protests. These memories stick with people. 

elabo editor

Cutting off one’s hair seems quite unique to this protest. Could you explain it? Where does this behavior come from?

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Ms. M

It came from Iranian myths. Siavash is a hero in Iranian mythology who is famous for being wrongfully murdered. At his funeral, his wife Frangis cuts her hair and ties it around her waist as a sign of grief and protest. Throughout history, it became a tradition, especially in Kurdistan, for women to cut their hair after their husband’s death to deprive themselves of the beauty the hair represents and wait for it to regrow for the beginning of a new life. The current protest represents the grief of an outlaw woman protesting, and it is also a tribute to Mahsa's Kurdish heritage.

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elabo editor

So this is not necessarily the Western way, but maybe a more authentic Iranian way to protest?

Ms. M

I would say so. I don't think it's the Western influence,because there was a time when Iran was semi-colonized, and many movements were against these powers controlled by Western countries.

■We can't expect Western countries to provide significant assistance.

Ms. M

Of course, I think the Western influence is the concept of freedom. Iranians see people in other countries, know how they can be free, and want to achieve such freedom. 

But I don't think Western countries influence how Iranians fight back, mainly because people in Iran got the news from themselves. Protesters were taking videos, and they were sharing them on social media. No one trusts the BBC or CNN, and no one trusts these Western governments. 

Of course, we want people to support us, but we don't wish for their meddling. I believe the American, British, and many other governments prioritize their benefits. They do not do anything to encourage our government to change. That's why it took them so long to speak up against what's happening in Iran. They were afraid that their benefits would be compromised otherwise. 

elabo editor

What's going on in Iran and Russia taught me that only the people in the country can change the country itself, and the support from outside doesn't matter a lot. 

Ms. M

Of course, we would appreciate the support from Western countries. One thing that would help us is to make the Iranian government powerless and isolated. But these governments would not speak up when it's not beneficial for them. They wouldn't do anything, I think. 

elabo editor

It is not surprising considering the historical background, but your sense of distance to the West is also interesting and different from us Japanese. In Japan, I think there is a strong belief, including my own, that the West is the model when talking about modernization, but you have a different view. Your thought gives us a different perspective. 

Come to think of it, the view of the hijab in the West, both previously and now, often does not include the Muslim woman's point of view. What do you think about the Western view of the hijab?

Ms. M

On the one hand, there is Islam, and on the other hand, there is the Islamic Republic of Iran. These are two different things. First of all, the movement in Iran is not against Islam. We are talking about freedom of choice. Like if I want to be a Muslim, if I don't want to be a Muslim, if I want to have the hijab or not. It is natural for a Muslim to want to wear a hijab, and that choice should naturally be respected.

But it sometimes happens that Muslims go to other countries, and those countries have a kind of Islamophobia and don't like hijab.

elabo editor

Especially since 9.11?

Ms. M

Yes. So some Western countries are forcing people of Islam not to wear their hijab. On the other hand, in Iran, the government is forcing people to wear hijabs, forcing them to do something they don't want to do. In any case, they should not be forced to do so. That's the problem.

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■What can we do from abroad?

 
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elabo editor

Over a month has passed since the protests started. I am very anxious, especially for young girls in Iran. I hope it is not an absurd question, but I'd like to know, what can we do for Iran? 

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Ms. M

One of the things is that, we need to ensure that whatever Iran is doing is costing its legitimacy. We must ensure that other people or countries do not recognize them as the proper government for Iran. 

In addition, amplifying Iranian voices is significant support. The internet connection in Iran is very restricted, and people can't easily communicate to the outside. So sharing and hashtags like #MahsaAmini or #womenlifefreedom are very important. 

The main thing is to let more people know and care about this. Share this news and stay updated. Right now, people in peripheral areas are suffering because they cannot get their voices out. In these areas, the brutality is harsher; more people are dying there, and more people are getting arrested. So we need to ensure that no news stays silenced and that every piece of information can be heard. 

■Even if the regime could not be changed, people's mindset has changed dramatically.

elabo editor

I genuinely hope that the revolution will succeed. But at the same time, I cannot imagine what a happy ending would look like. I know this revolutionary movement has no leader, but it is impressive and makes it uncertain what's going to happen next, I think.

Ms. M

There are certain things that we want to change. It's the rules against women. But we also wish to change so much more. We want a secular government. People don't want the supreme leader; we want the pre-election. But I feel like it's still kind of like uncertain for us too. What will happen next? What would be the happy ending?

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But there is one thing. Even if the people do not succeed in changing the government, I feel the movement has changed the people. This is huge. The protests are coming into people's daily life; women go outside to do their daily activities without hijab. Even if it doesn't end well, I think this change permanently affects people. 

elabo editor

That's a great answer, and I genuinely appreciate your long-term perspective. I am also very impressed that even though hundreds of people are dying, you still maintain your love for your country.  

Ms. M

It's the love for my people. The government doesn't matter, you know? I don't think there's a good politician in the world. Politics are always big organizations that are likely to cover up news and hide some truths for their benefit. And I feel like recently, I’m even prouder. Because when I see people protesting - and the women doing this too, the young students leading the movement - I feel even prouder to be an Iranian than I did before.

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■ If we want to survive, we need to change the present situation

elabo editor

Yeah, that's very understandable. Though the Iranians are in a very tough situation, I envy you, in a sense. We Japanese cannot find a good way to be united for social justice problems to be solved, generally speaking, so many people might be afraid to change in Japan.

Ms. M

I think it took a long time to make a change in Iran as well. When the previous revolution happened in 1979, people believed in them. It took a long time for most people to realize that this government was not working. They always say “This happened because America was meddling with our situation” in order to deny what they are doing. So time was needed for people to understand the problem. 

I think the change is hard for everyone. Because many people are struggling to make money or put food on the table for their families, they're more concerned with these issues and say things like, "I don't care about hijab," or "I don't care about changing the government." Change always comes with a price, which maybe not all people want to pay. Finally, many people realize that if they want to survive, they need to change the government.

elabo editor

If we want to survive, we need to change the present situation. That's a critical acknowledgment to share with the Japanese. Thank you so much for telling us what's happening in Iran and providing background. This is full of essential instruction for the people who think we need to change. The most impressive thing for me is that you have powerful words to explain yourself and your country. 

Ms. M

Thank you so much for the opportunity to talk.

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